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« Madonna and Johnnie Walker: 'Keep Walking' | Main | Video: 'I'm A Sinner' technical problems in St Louis »

Thursday, 01 November 2012

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bristar

Hi, ngl

This is turning into our own personal thread! LOL That said, at least we are exchanging views and information ;-)

I would like to say I was a baby when I saw M at The Camden Palace in 1983, but I would be lying! I was still quite young, though... ;-)

I used to be a regular at The Camden Palace before it became "trendy", since I was at school with Martin Kemp (Spandau Ballet) and Christos Tolera (Google him if you don't know of him - many facets to this guy's talents!) and I was very much on the whole New Romantic scene. (There, I have given away my age! LOL)

By the time M performed there, The Camden Palace had lost its "cool" edge, once various articles about the New Romantics/Blitz Kids, etc. had broken in the mainstream press.

Now, here's the thing - 'Everybody', which flopped in the UK was, imho, an infinitely superior track to 'Holiday' (which, I have to say, I utterly detest!). Some argue that it was The Camden Palace appearance that helped make 'Holiday' a hit. I have some doubts about this as, for sure, the general reception to M at The Camden Palace was, well, 'luke warm', to be frank. (At this time, The Camden Palace hosted many acts, so M - as an unknown artiste to most - was not really anything special.) However, all that said, we should never forget that, at that time, the UK (and US) charts very heavily filled with a lot of electronic pop music. As a result, M's sound was very different to everything else, I think.

What were my thoughts on her? Well, the performance was average and, with hindsight, quite charming by its naivete! However, there WAS something that I cannot put my finger on that just clicked with me. My sister was with me there that night - she is also a lifelong Madonna fan and comes to at least one of the concerts during a tour with me - and she also agrees there was "something" about M, although she also thought she was pretty average! How weird is that? I guess that is the elusive X Factor and star quality?

It is also interesting how the UK warmed so quickly to M, since she was no great fan of the UK when she first started visiting here! The fact that she almost got crushed against the railings outside the (former) Anthony Price store in South Molton Street would have been a factor (!), but it is clear that it was around the time of 'Ray of Light', when she started to spend more and more time in the UK, that her affections for the country grew. In an alleged letter (email?) to Gywneth Paltrow (I think?) around this time, she is said to have written, "I am having a bit of a love affair with the UK right now".

With regards to 'M.D.N.A.' as I said, I really just don't "get it" (assuming, of course, there IS anything to get!). I actually hate the album! When 'American Life' was released, initially I was bitterly disappointed with it as I considered it to be a lazy continuation of the whole Mirwais/Music thing; however, within a few listens, I personally saw it as an utterly brilliant album - a view I still hold. In fact, I think "Nobody Knows Me" and "Nothing Fails" are two of M's best songs, and her performance of "Nobody Knows Me" at RIT was one of my highlights of the concert. (I also LOVE the performance on "Into The Groove"!) But, 'M.D.N.A.' - sorry, no. Have not warmed to it at all!

I am rambling a bit (a lot?!), so will close off for now! Hope I didn't bore you too much!

ngl

Hi bristar, Thanks for the review link! I find it amazing that you were actually there in 1983 when Madonna's career was just beginning!! Wow- you got to see the Icon just before the brink of superstardom!!! I have read many books about Madonna & they all seem to say that Madonna wasn't considered that great in the UK in the very beginning & many people were wondering why there was so much fuss about her- they do say that the British very quickly changed their minds about Madonna & she was soon loved & embraced! Is this true? What were your initial impressions of Madonna, did you think "She is going to be a Megastar & own the 80's etc/"? I feel much like you do about the "MDNA" LP- I've tried hard to like it, but I'm not feeling it. I like all of Madonna's previous LP's & I've never had to 'try' to like them. The only 'MDNA' LP songs I really like are 'Turn Up The Radio', 'Masterpiece', 'Falling Free' & to a lesser extent 'I F*** Up' & 'GMAYL'. 'Gang Bang' has a great beat but the violent subject matter & Madonna's vocal delivery in the later part of the song ruin it. I had such high hopes for 'MDNA' lp because Madonna had spent a few years away from music & she was working again with Orbit- sadly, this LP was a rush job & it really suffers from silly & childish song lyrics (Madonna's songs used to have great, intelligent lyrics BUT she used to co-write her songs & spend time revising them). Madonna is capable of making much better music than MDNA- her back catalogue is a testement to this.

bristar

Hi, ngl

Maybe your 'virtual lynching' is like Madonna being booed - a 'virtual lynching' is actually another way of loving...? ;-)

I am a huge fan and have been right from the very beginning - hell, I even saw her at her infamous Camden Palace PA (before lots of people even knew who she was in the UK!)... in October 1983!!! :-o There is an interesting, and quite quaint, review of the PA at

http://century.guardian.co.uk/1980-1989/Story/0,,108236,00.html


That said, the whole "M.D.N.A." era has left me stone cold - in fact, I think the album (apart from 'I'm Addicted') is just puerile cr@p, pop/dance-by-numbers, to be brutally honest; but that doesn't make me a 'hater', as I still await with interest where her musical journey takes her - and us - next.

It just seems very sad and ironic to me that some people on here bang on about how important it is that M speaks about intolerance/tolerance (which IS important), and then crucify others for not sharing exactly the same views as them!

ngl

Hi bristar, It's nice to know that I can trust the information re Nikki/Madonna etc in the various Madonna biographies I have read (eg "Madonna Like An Icon- by Lucy O'brien", "Madonna An Intimate Biography" by R.T. ...)!
Hi tracy & Bristar- I agree with your sentiments regarding some of the extreme Madonna fans that don't undertand the concept of critique. You can like & admire Madonna without agreeing with everything she does- this doesn't make you a 'hater'. In another article about booing, my post has been met with a 'virtual lynching' & also praise- they love me, they love me not!!

bristar

Hi, ngl

Your posts are getting ever closer to the discussion I had with Niki... ;-)

ngl

IMPO Madonna's best tours, in equal 1st place, were 'Blond Ambition Tour 90' & 'Confessions Tour 2006'- perfect setlists perfect costumes, perfect staging, perfect Madonna!! In equal 2nd place 'The Girlie Show 93', & 'RIT 2004'. It's interesting how Madonna had really clear ideas about future concerts expressed around 'DWT' in 01 saying she 'wasn't a jukebox' & wouldn't sing her old hit songs again, she spoke with disdain about many of her classics (She wouldn't perform 'Vogue'- "It's like a tattoo, it represents a time in your life", or 'Like A Virgin'- "That's like me 5 lifetimes ago!" & 'Material Girl"- "I'm sure GM is about as proud of his Wham songs as I am with Material Girl at the Moment!" etc) - yet Madonna's very next tour, 'RIT', went against everything she had just said & she implemented Nikki's ideas which was basically improving the outfits & setlist to meet her fans high expectations.

bristar

Hi, tracy!

Yes, apparently we can only worship Madonna, not critique her! As you say, M definitely has no time for weak, "yes people"! ;-)

I used to work near Marble Arch and have very fond memories of a "Madonna sighting" when she lived in London. I saw her with Rocco on his birthday when I was on my lunch break - she was taking him into a restaurant...yet the tabloid press decided to run a bizarre story where they claimed she had taken him somewhere else! I contacted the paper and told them it was all made up and they changed the story online! LOL

tracy

well-this has made it bit more clear,lol!!many thanks boys :) i know what you mean about the 'lynching'-it never ceases to amaze me how youre not suppossed to disagree with anything madge does!! i personally think she would hate that sort of thing.yes,yes,yes people.i remember an interview in the 90s where she said 'if theres 100 people in a room & 99 people like what she does & say yes,she remembers the one that doesnt!!'lol!!!sharing tour memories-i was fortunate to see her jogging in hyde park in 1990!! never forget it!! she was smiling & seemed very happy-i then went to see her wembley that night for the 'blond ambition tour'-magical!!!!

bristar

Hi, ngl.

You are on the right track with your comments but, as they kinda say, what is said in G.A.Y. stays in G.A.Y. ;-) I will say, however - and this is solely my own view - that the, ahem, "differences" at DWT certainly seemed to have made RIT happen sooner than it might have ;-) !

On the subject of G.A.Y., I was one of those fortunate enough to see Madonna there, too. I have seen M many times over the years, both at tours and at promos, and there is no doubt for me that her performance at G.A.Y. is equal with CT for me. She seemed genuinely happy to be there, genuinely taken aback by the utterly deafening reception from the crowd, and chatted and joked with the audience in a way I had never seen her do before, or have done since. I was also lucky enough to get a truly amazing unique souvenir of the show: I got chatting to a young woman whose father was involved with the lighting and she went backstage and gave me the acetate of one of the stage back projections!!!!

ngl

@bristar- Thankyou for answering my post about Madonna/ Nikki & explaining your reasons not to spill, I Respect that!! If you have read some of my previous posts, you will notice that I have come close to a 'virtual lynching' myself a number of times!!! Maybe Nikki will one day write a book! I did read that Nikki hated the DWT costumes & setlist- she told Madonna about her fears that the fans would boo them off the stage. Thankfully Nikki was able to convince Madonna to include 'Holiday' & 'La Isla Bonita'. Nikki basically said "There are things you will put up with in your 20's that you won't in your mid-40's!" Its a shame that Nikki & Donna weren't able to establish their own high profile musical careers.

bristar

Hi, ngl.

My bf and I chatted with Niki for a good half an hour after her amazing show at G.A.Y. and I have to say that she was utterly charming. I have known Clare, the web mistress of Madonnalicious, in a virtual sense for over a decade, but I don't imagine she would be able to publish the details of the conversation I had with Niki! I also think some of the more ardent fans on this Forum, who think M can do no wrong, would lynch me (virtually!) and say I was "hating on" Madonna! LOL Naturally, my chat with Niki was one-sided, but I suspected many elements of truth in the chat! ;-) I will confirm, however, that much was said about the DWT... ;-)

ngl

@bristar- You met Nikki Harris & you said that there was no love lost between them- more details please! Did she say something about Madonna at the club or to you- if so, please spill! I've read 2 bio's about Madonna & they talk about the Nikki feud a bit- Nikki says they fell out during the "DWT", she says that Madonna had changed over the years & hated Nikki's input and she barely lasted that tour which she felt sucked!

bristar

tracy: I met Nikki after her solo performance at G.A.Y. a few years back, and was signing copies of her CD afterwards. To say there was no love lost between her and M is an understatement!!!

ngl: I, too, wish M would sing LIVE as much of the time as is possible. As you say, her voice is less than pristine then (as can be said for most performers!), but I go to see Madonna *LIVE* (emphasis on that word)!

tracy

i think she had a fall out with nikki harris-i saw her on a show in england(about madonnas men!!) really bad mouthing madge!!! i think donna d may have a family now-i know she tours in her own right.i did also love those two though :) xxxxx

Elaine

This sucks! I can't view!!! :(

ngl

Amazing footage, from a unique angle, it's great to see/hear a sample from most of the songs in the concert. It is nice to hear Madonna singing for real throughout the concert, I don't care if it doesn't sound as pristine as the studio, IMPO this adds to the charm. It is a shame that Madonna no longer sings/ performs with Donna D & Nikki Harris, they made a great trio for the concerts in 87/90/93/01. N Harris had a great gospel voice that provided 'contrast' & Donna D had a similar voice to Madonna that provided 'sweetening' (Donna on stayed for the '04 & '06 concerts). Who are the female backup vocalists for Madonna these days?? It sounds like Madonna provides the vocals on her own now, with some male vocalists for contrast. It's amazing that she can dance & sing like this at any age, let alone 54! Her tours in recent years last for vast periods of time- she tours harder now than she did in her 30's.

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